Brugerdiskussion:Sir48/Til Foundation

Hopefully the situation has been addressed here Wikipedia:Landsbybrønden/Removal_of_information_and_Foundation_procedures, but in the case some unfortunate wanderer should discover this page here, let me address each and every item contained in this email.

anthere9 [at] yahoo.com

Dear Anthere,

1. Abstract
The undersigned administrators and contributors to Danish Wikipedia want to express their severe dissatisfaction with the recent actions of mr. Cary Bass on da:wiki, following an OTRS request handled by him about giving anonymity to a Danish contributor and troublemaker. Mr. Cary Bass has secretly and off-wiki ordered this to be carried out without seeking any form of approval from the Danish community.

As has been explained, the situation mandated action by the hosting company (the Foundation), it did not require any approval by the community. However, to state that I did not enlist the aide of community members in carrying out this action is entirely without merit. I did in fact contact several members of the community, who assisted with varying degrees.

I don't remember that being explained, but I suppose it's easy to do so, so please do it again. --Pred (diskussion) 9. feb 2008, 18:57 (CET)

In addition, mr. Cary Bass subsequently used a derogatory tone when handling polite comments and requests for clarification on his talk page on meta and made clear on the #da-wikipedia IRC-channel, that he was ready to expel anyone permanently, who questioned his acts.

My specific words were that I would "desysop" anyone who reverted my actions. Not quite the same thing.

My guess would be, that Sir48 is referring to this comment: "Anyone who puts stuff on my talk pages on meta will be removed from here on out". I understand it's hard to keep track of all conversations. Now, I'm not sure what you mean by "remove", but I'm sure it isn't "desysop". --Pred (diskussion) 9. feb 2008, 18:58 (CET)

As a result, deep concerns have been raised on da:wiki regarding our right to determine matters by local consensus on policy, when no Foundation issue is at stake, and the loss of confidence has resulted in the loss of several valued contributors.

We have already established that this involved the Foundation.

We apologize for using your time on this matter but hope, that you will see into it and advice mr. Cary Bass to communicate in polite language, and also provide assurance that interference from the Foundation and its employees into matters that are not in any way crucial to anything else than the local community is left to be decided by that community according to consensus (and possibly) advice from outside.

Misconceptions of my language were taken in misinterpretation of what I was saying and who I was saying it to.'

Some of the quotes on the village pump can't be misinterpreted. I am completely conviced, that some of your statements should have been in another tone of voice, and I'm happy to see that you agree (at least to some degree ...). --Pred (diskussion) 9. feb 2008, 18:58 (CET)

2. Background

A da:wiki contributor named [RP], who originally used his name as the username on da:wiki has severely tested the patience of the community by repeated personal attacks and other transgressions. He is recognised as a spanner in the works also outside the wiki communities even by his own admission.

There is no disputing this. RP, foolishly used his real name without understanding the repercussions of such an action.

After a procedure for banning was initiated against him, he wished to change his username and make a new start, which was granted. However, his behavior under the new name soon showed the same pattern of behaviour, and a new banning procedure was initiated, requiring a coupling with the former procedure. In the meantime he was also blocked several times and is also presently under a block, which expires on February 18th, 2008.

I'm not certain that that his block should ever expire, but this is up to the community.

Among his responses to this was to make the names and adresses of several administrators of da:wiki public on his website/blog. He also contacted OTRS to try to get his name removed entirely from the Danish Wikipedia.

I suggested to RP that he remove the names. He did.

This request was accepted by volunteer coordinator Cary Bass who appears to have performed only a cursory investigation into the case. On da:wiki, no policy for the right to delete a username has been adopted, since this subject had not been raised before.

Again, this is the act of a hosting company, not one of local policy.

After having dictated the removal of the username from all talk pages, Cary Bass was asked to explain the reasons in the Danish IRC-channel. He justified his actions using the Right to Vanish "policy", claiming that supposedly everyone on every Wikipedia has the right to vanish. This is certainly not the case, since http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Right_to_vanish&oldid=859108 clearly states "Your work, including 'signatures' (text indicating your authorship of comments) on all but your own user and talk pages, will usually not be changed or removed. To change these would be a major source of disruption."

I specifically said this is not the Right to Vanish (which is not actually, a real policy)

Bass refused to discuss this on-wiki with the reason: "To reduce drama", but it is the opinion of the undersigned, that this should have taken place in order to establish a policy on da:wiki (and without mentioning the actual case, of course, since it originated from OTRS).

My job functions are not something to be discussed on wiki. I'm not employed by the community, but by the foundation.

Since then, Bass has formulated a draft available at http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Bastique/Real_names_of_non-encyclopedic_individuals&oldid=860462 which seems to describe Bass' understanding of "the right to vanish" but which we see as an attempt to build a case for denying local Wikipedias their independence and retroactively give Bass mandate for his actions on da:Wiki.

This is not the right to vanish (as it specifically says), but an explanation of actions to the various communities."

In addition, he has chosen to meet attempts to open a dialog on the matter on his talk page on meta with hostilility, for instance accusing the Danish administrator Lhademmor of illiteracy (http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ABastique&diff=858669&oldid=858667)

A) This comment was not directed at Lhedemmor, but at Pred. See above to understand why I mention that people don't know how to read. I have stated several times this is not the right to vanish, or any kind of meta policy.

and accusing another Danish administrator Pred of childish trolling (http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ABastique&diff=858667&oldid=858594)

I had left a message on my talk page that any further discussion would be removed and that people could contact me by email. Again, I will not discuss my job functions on wiki. Pred added a comment after that, with the summary, "Comment (note that I wouldn't call this discussing it)", in an apparent attempt to antagonize me. I consider this both childish and trolling.

and reverting and removing the discussion entirely. As a follow-up, Cary Bass again appeared on the Danish IRC-channel and declared that he was ready to issue a permanent ban on everybody, who raised the issue again.

See above. I specifically threatened to desysop. I never said I was ready to issue a permanent ban on everyone. I have the logs which explain exactly what I said.

These actions and the very unfriendly behaviour displayed by Cary Bass have miffed several contributors from the Danish community, who ought to apologize for the tone used in his handling of this matter. In order to restore confidence, it would also be very helpful, if a statement of principle could be given to the effect that the local Wikipedia was left to handle its own internal affairs, when no real Foundation issues are at stake.

Having said all that, indeed, I have apologized, as seen on the local Village Pump. And yes, Foundation issues are definitely at stake. We are, ultimately a hosting company and certain requests to that hosting company must be fulfilled as such.

3. About da:wiki

For your information, the Danish Wikipedia is a rather succesful project, now having reached the 80.000-articles mark and improving in both quantity and quality. It has not until now been driven primarily by consensus on rules (like en:wiki, for example), but instead upon consensus regarding acts, reflecting a Danish/Scandinavian tradition of not reducing everything to "law".

The community is well-functioning with a suitable number of administrators and has proven quite capable of reaching consensus on a lot of other issues, including issues pertaining to individual contributors. This is regarded by us as a fundamental right, although we also appreciate the rights of the WMF to intervene, should its governing principles be violated.

I applaud the work that all of the dawiki contributors have done and encourage them to put this issue behind them so we can all go back to constructive work. The intense reaction from a large portion of the dawiki community has daunted me and made me take a step back. Note that I will endeavor to put stronger procedures in place to see that this level of misunderstanding does not take place again.

Nevertheless, some dawiki members has created an article on RP; who is, at most, is a local curiosity whose bizarre antics has earned him appearances in the local news a few times over the years. This has generated a new slew of emails from RP (Florence, I'll be happy to forward them to you so you have some understanding of the frustration I'm dealing with.) The latest one deals with his date of birth, which has apparently been published nowhere except a facebook page which is no longer public.

I feel that a few dawiki community members remain, who only vendetta against Paladan on their mind rather than peaceful resolution, and are hard pressed refuse to believe. Will the situation be resolved? I will continue to do my job, as you know me better than most.

Signed...